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 Religious Discussion

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Which do you belong to?
Catholic
25%
 25% [ 3 ]
Protestant/Christian
8%
 8% [ 1 ]
Muslim
17%
 17% [ 2 ]
Mormon
8%
 8% [ 1 ]
Jew
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Buddist
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Agnostic
8%
 8% [ 1 ]
Atheist
25%
 25% [ 3 ]
Other
8%
 8% [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 12
 

AuthorMessage
firegremlin

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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:54 pm

firegremlin wrote:
weird...i already posted this...anyway
ramadhan is when you fast for about 30 days. i say about because it is to do with the lunar clendar and you start fasting at the new moon and end on a new moon. while fastng you cannot eat while the sun is up so you must wake up before it rises and then wait (even without water!) until it sets until you have dinner.about the point of fasting is you can feel how people in poverty starve everyday and how bad it is. once the month of ramadhan is over we celebrate Eid.

no-one delete this! Evil or Very Mad
~firegremlin~
there, is that enough jody? if not, ask I'm tired Sleep
~firegremlin~
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Forsaken Lament 44
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:10 pm

Very interesting topic...I'm glad you're all pretty open and comfortable with eachother's beliefs...Catholics, Mormons, and Muslims are all rather different, but there's no reason we can't all find good thing's about eachother's beliefs and live together peacefully.

Personally, I have no strict religion, but I know all about many religions...I know a good deal about Islam, Catholicism, Judiasm, Hinduism, and even Buddhism...there are good things about all of them...the only time it's bad is when people assume things about them, and make mistakes in judgement...I do believe that it is important to keep an open mind, and think of things in your own way...not always the way you are told to believe things.

I suppose that could make me what's called a Deist, or someone who doesn't have strict religious beliefs but believes there is a higher being of some kind. Since I am incapable of truly knowing everything, I can't endorse one religion, but i can respect and learn from all of them. Cool

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SmashedBrother
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:48 pm

Jordan24Geno wrote:
then let them preach because i do not know what each religion is or does. that is why i asked pugs and he shared his info now it is ur turn fire


ps i also moved were we started talking about religion into this topic

Ditto. I couldn't have put it better myself. I would like to know more about what you believe, even though I doubt that you guys will be falling over in awe what I have to say.

P.S. Thanks for moving it Jody! I wanted to do that, but I wasn't sure how.

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BrightScales
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:31 pm

is anyone else mormon here?
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StarRoadWarrior
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:53 pm

i guess not pugs but not every one has voted so i may be wrong

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Forsaken Lament 44
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:55 pm

I've actually neer met a Mormon..I know some Muslims, Jews, and my girlfriend is Catholic...but it seems that there aren't many Mormons outside of Utah...of course, i could be completely wrong, but i suppose that is the myth in these parts.

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BrightScales
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:43 pm

ForsakenLament 04 wrote:
I've actually neer met a Mormon..I know some Muslims, Jews, and my girlfriend is Catholic...but it seems that there aren't many Mormons outside of Utah...of course, i could be completely wrong, but i suppose that is the myth in these parts.
believe it or not your completely wrong.
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StarRoadWarrior
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:04 pm

i have met a few Mormon people at school the past few days that have moved from another state

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SmashedBrother
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:51 pm

ForsakenLament 04 wrote:
I suppose that could make me what's called a Deist, or someone who doesn't have strict religious beliefs but believes there is a higher being of some kind. Since I am incapable of truly knowing everything, I can't endorse one religion, but i can respect and learn from all of them. Cool

I can agree with you to an extent - Being human, it's impossible to know anything for absolutely 100% certain, but their are things that I believe point towards the Catholic Faith.

For example, one of the things that makes it hard to believe in a Protestant Faith (or any faith that acknowledges Jesus as divine, or even a prophet) is that the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus Himself founded, and even said that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". The protestant religions all seperated (directly or indirectly) from the Church.

Sigh, mom's after the computer again...

P.S. I always heard of a Deist as someone who believes in a higher being, but doesn't believe He takes an active part in his Creation. Did you mean that you're a relitivist? Not that it really changes anything.

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StarRoadWarrior
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:35 pm

(off topic) ok smash you know WAY to much

(on topic)

for this kind of topic the most important thing to remember is to have an open mind. just like cory said its good to learn from every thing

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SmashedBrother
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:19 pm

Jordan24Geno wrote:
(off topic) ok smash you know WAY to much

(on topic)

for this kind of topic the most important thing to remember is to have an open mind. just like cory said its good to learn from every thing

I know Razz

True. I'm a Catholic because the evidence points to it, but we're all human, and not all of us can be right, and we all make mistakes.

So Jody, not quite on topic, but I'm a little ignorant here - are Baptists the same as Evangelicals. Probably a dumb question. Neutral

P.S. Nobody's interrogating me yet Crying or Very sad

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Forsaken...Lament!

The war to end all Waaars is coming.

R.I.P.qjr!

The Grim(lin) reaper has come!

Jordan.....Prepare for the Geno-cide!

We shall Battle and you shall Cry!

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StarRoadWarrior
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:04 am

to be 100% truthful i dont know a lot about Evangelicals but in short no it is not the same there are a few different things about the two. i will post some later

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BrightScales
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:41 pm

LDS CHALLENGE!!
Ok I challenge you to go to a mormon church next sunday or some other sunday. find stuff about the religion and sit through a WHOLE meaning then report back here!
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SmashedBrother
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:28 pm

pugsly1000 wrote:
LDS CHALLENGE!!
Ok I challenge you to go to a mormon church next sunday or some other sunday. find stuff about the religion and sit through a WHOLE meaning then report back here!

Well....I don't see being able to go to a mormon church anytime soon (even if there is one close by), but I'll make you a deal -

If you try and find out about Catholic church and post any questions you have here when you're done, I'll try and find out about mormonism, and ask you any questions I have when I've looked over the LDS faith.

Sound fair?

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Forsaken...Lament!

The war to end all Waaars is coming.

R.I.P.qjr!

The Grim(lin) reaper has come!

Jordan.....Prepare for the Geno-cide!

We shall Battle and you shall Cry!

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Forsaken Lament 44
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:50 pm

Interesting conversation you guys are having here...It's nice to see you guys are sharing eachother's beliefs....

In response to your question Smashed, a Deist is someone who does not believe in any strict religion, nor do they follow any belief practice...yet, they are different than atheists in that they do believe in a higher being...they simply don't know what that higher being is. If you want a good example of a well known Deist, just look at the American founding Fathers...Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin...they were deists...which is part of the reason they created a secular government.

In the end, just think of it as a means of having a completely open mind to things...as I stated before, I take information from every religion, be it Mormonism or Catholocism, Buddhism or Hinduism, Islam or Judiasm....ior even Native American ideas....the bottom line is, everyone has good and bad aspects to their religions...we just have to pcik which ones we like, and don't like...

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SmashedBrother
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:46 pm

ForsakenLament 04 wrote:
Interesting conversation you guys are having here...It's nice to see you guys are sharing eachother's beliefs....

In response to your question Smashed, a Deist is someone who does not believe in any strict religion, nor do they follow any belief practice...yet, they are different than atheists in that they do believe in a higher being...they simply don't know what that higher being is. If you want a good example of a well known Deist, just look at the American founding Fathers...Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin...they were deists...which is part of the reason they created a secular government.

In the end, just think of it as a means of having a completely open mind to things...as I stated before, I take information from every religion, be it Mormonism or Catholocism, Buddhism or Hinduism, Islam or Judiasm....ior even Native American ideas....the bottom line is, everyone has good and bad aspects to their religions...we just have to pcik which ones we like, and don't like...

I agree with you - It's pretty cool to learn about other peoples beliefs.

What do you think is "a bad aspect" of Catholism (I'm just asking out of curiousity.)

Speaking of which, I'm sorry, but I'm still a little confused when you say you're a deist confused . Ironically it was Ben Franklin I was thinking of when you said that - I know he believed there was a higher being who had pretty much left his creation to itself, and that he was a deist. That doesn't sound like what you're saying.

You seem to believe that there IS a God or some form of divine being, but that you can't expect to know who or what he is. Am I close?


P.S. One quick, technical detail, but our founding fathers did NOT set up a secular government. See the main clause from the constitution, without which the whole argument they make is pointless (the MAIN body of law for America for anyone reading this from Cananda, Australia, or Europe Wink )

Founding Fathers wrote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

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Forsaken...Lament!

The war to end all Waaars is coming.

R.I.P.qjr!

The Grim(lin) reaper has come!

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Forsaken Lament 44
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:42 pm

The "official" definition of a deist would say that a higher being created the world and let it develop on its own, sort of like a clockmaker and his product. This is the 18th century Enlightenment style of though however, and i believe the more modern version of it would basically say that we lack the knowledge and the proof to be certain about any one religion. I also think that with our increased knowledge of the world and its cultures, causes us to be respectful of every single people's culture, especially as any one set of believes is just as valid as another group's. You could call me a relativist for picking and choosing which elements I prefer, and for the sake of education, i believe the most important aspects should be discussed. However, for our own personal self-benefit, i think we should have the freedom to choose which aspects apply to our lives more than others...

And about the US Constitution, you bring up a good point, but you must take note of the first Amendment, which states that the government "shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." which essentially declares the creation of a secular government. of course, it was maintstream to be religious at that point, so of course the word "creator" was used in the Declaration of Independence. And you should also take note that the word "creator" is rather ambiguous and open to interpretation....because of this fact, it could in essence appeal to any non-pagan religion.

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waaar81

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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:09 pm

OK I just saw this subject and I am opponed to question on Islam if you guys have any.

And I have a "question" that needs to be answered/confirmed.

most of you knows already that christianism have different "sections" like orthodoxes and all.

I heard that the beginning of the english christianism was because f a king (cant rmember which one exactly). It seems the king was already married and he fell in love with the Queen of spain from that time and wanted to marry her. He asked the pape from vatican at that time what he could do to be with her and since it is forbidden by the religion to have a divorce once your married until the other dies the response to the king was a negative one. On that matter the king sent a reply to the vatican saying that he will change the religion of all his country in order to allow divorce settlement and a few other changes so that his peoples could be a bit more "free" if the vatican wouldn't find a way to make him be with the queen of spain. To that the vatican responded that hey would declare war to england in that case. And the king responded that his men were waiting. To hat the vatican responded to the king that if one other woman was more important then the lives of so many peoples then he was a lost case and therefore changed their mind about making war with such a king. And that's the story of the England christianism.

Oh man that was long. Well that was to the best of my knowledge. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it.

>_> Cory this is history so you better have an answer also
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SmashedBrother
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:05 pm

Sorry it's been so long for me to answer (I know you've been waiting breathlessly, lol!)

ForsakenLament 04 wrote:
The "official" definition of a deist would say that a higher being created the world and let it develop on its own, sort of like a clockmaker and his product. This is the 18th century Enlightenment style of though however, and i believe the more modern version of it would basically say that we lack the knowledge and the proof to be certain about any one religion.

You do fit the definition of a relativist (and I agree that it is the modern equivalent of deism, different as the beliefs are.) but I'll call you a deist if you like - A belief by any other name is still the same belief, no?

I'm curious - What is it that makes you believe there's a God, without giving you any idea whatsoever of what he's like? Majority vote?

Quote :
I also think that with our increased knowledge of the world and its cultures, causes us to be respectful of every single people's culture, especially as any one set of believes is just as valid as another group's. You could call me a relativist for picking and choosing which elements I prefer, and for the sake of education, i believe the most important aspects should be discussed. However, for our own personal self-benefit, i think we should have the freedom to choose which aspects apply to our lives more than others...

This is the part that.....I really don't follow. First, let me take this part -
Quote :
I also think that with our increased knowledge of the world and its cultures, [should?] cause us to be respectful of every single people's culture, especially as any one set of believes is just as valid as another group's

I agree that we should respect everyone's beliefs, but you can respect a belief without believing it yourself - and if every person's beliefs (ALL of which contradict another somewhere I.e. Catholics believe Jeses was the Messiah, whereas Jews are the group who did not believe he was.....are they both "equally valid"? See the next part) are "equally valid" then, logically, they can't all be equally right (since their beliefs cannot all be the truth if another denomination's beliefs are, since they ALL disagree somewhere) so all they could be is equally wrong - Is that what you believe?

Speaking of which, I'm interested in hearing what you believe is a "bad aspect" of Catholicism?

Third -
Quote :
i believe the most important aspects should be discussed. However, for our own personal self-benefit, i think we should have the freedom to choose which aspects apply to our lives more than others...

Let me take this part first - "I believe the most important aspects should be discussed"

Wait minute, how can there be "more important aspects" if all beliefs are "equally valid"? confused

Also -
Quote :
However, for our own personal self-benefit, i think we should have the freedom to choose which aspects apply to our lives more than others

Hmm, let me use an analogy - A scientist is working on creating a cold fusion generator, but, as you can ultimately NEVER be 100% sure about scientific facts (after all, there could be some entirely different form of physics that nobody know about yet. So far, no problem with this picture.), he decides that all theories related to it must be "equally valid", and so, while he focuses on taking the "more imporant aspects" of the theories (probably the most commonly believed.) he's just taking the parts of the theories that he likes, or feels are "best", based on no real evidence, and so he completes his "cold fusion generator".

The only problem is that it will never (short of amazing luck that won't happen with God.) actually produce any real energy - it's all make believe, which ( no offense intended , please don't take any) is what it sounds like you're doing with God - You seem to believe that we can all make up our own personal god and contradicting beliefs about him, and yet all be equally right....do you really believe it grants any self-benifit to do this?

These are some of the main reasons I disagree with the belief that all religions are equally valid. It just doesn't work out. The only way it could be true is if God was all a pretend.....

I'll answer about the Constitution later - I can only write so long a post before my head explodes, lol!
Take Care & God Bless!
~SmashedBrother

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Forsaken...Lament!

The war to end all Waaars is coming.

R.I.P.qjr!

The Grim(lin) reaper has come!

Jordan.....Prepare for the Geno-cide!

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Last edited by SmashedBrother on Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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SmashedBrother
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:21 pm

waaar81 wrote:
OK I just saw this subject and I am opponed to question on Islam if you guys have any.

And I have a "question" that needs to be answered/confirmed.

most of you knows already that christianism have different "sections" like orthodoxes and all.

I heard that the beginning of the english christianism was because f a king (cant rmember which one exactly). It seems the king was already married and he fell in love with the Queen of spain from that time and wanted to marry her. He asked the pape from vatican at that time what he could do to be with her and since it is forbidden by the religion to have a divorce once your married until the other dies the response to the king was a negative one. On that matter the king sent a reply to the vatican saying that he will change the religion of all his country in order to allow divorce settlement and a few other changes so that his peoples could be a bit more "free" if the vatican wouldn't find a way to make him be with the queen of spain. To that the vatican responded that hey would declare war to england in that case. And the king responded that his men were waiting. To hat the vatican responded to the king that if one other woman was more important then the lives of so many peoples then he was a lost case and therefore changed their mind about making war with such a king. And that's the story of the England christianism.

Oh man that was long. Well that was to the best of my knowledge. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it.

>_> Cory this is history so you better have an answer also

Wow, haven't heard that before. Where did you see this? The church wasn't even capable of declaring war on England (and if it went that far, I don't think it would have been a bluff) even if it wanted to "spread by the sword"

Anyway, the first half is right - The already married king fell in love with another woman, and asked the church for an annulment but the church refused, because his marriage had been binding (if you want detail, I'll try and find it). The king then disobeyed the Church and divorced his wife, so the church excommunicated him. He responded by declaring himself the head of the Church, and forcing all Catholics to swear an oath aknoledging him, or he would execute them (EDIT: no, I believe it was his daughter Elizabeth who ordered executions - he just made laws making life...difficult for those loyal to the church) so those loyal to the pope mainly went "underground" so to speak.

T

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Forsaken...Lament!

The war to end all Waaars is coming.

R.I.P.qjr!

The Grim(lin) reaper has come!

Jordan.....Prepare for the Geno-cide!

We shall Battle and you shall Cry!

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Nobody messes with Texas!
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BrightScales
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:42 pm

SmashedBrother wrote:
pugsly1000 wrote:
LDS CHALLENGE!!
Ok I challenge you to go to a mormon church next sunday or some other sunday. find stuff about the religion and sit through a WHOLE meaning then report back here!

Well....I don't see being able to go to a mormon church anytime soon (even if there is one close by), but I'll make you a deal -

If you try and find out about Catholic church and post any questions you have here when you're done, I'll try and find out about mormonism, and ask you any questions I have when I've looked over the LDS faith.

Sound fair?
Ill try but theres only one in my area
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Everlong

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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:12 pm

I'd personally consider myself a Humanitarian Universalist, actually. Which is, essentially, a person who believes that all religions have the part of a 'greater truth': that is to say, no one religion is actually 'wrong,' they just don't have the whole picture. I liken it to looking through a prism - what do you see? All sorts of different colors...and they all mingle together. Jesus? The Buddha? Muhammad? Abraham? Zoroaster? All good guys in my book. I'm not going to pretend that my opinion is better than anyone of the faiths here, for I don't think I could ever truly be sure about anything.

I'm very interested in Islam though, and I've thought once or twice about converting to it...I'm afraid my father would probably disown me, unfortunately. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:59 pm

Oh wow, I didn't notice that anyone had commented here! Shocked (I think Cory and Waaar are getting back at me for taking so long to answer them, lol!)


@Everlong - First, just to make sure we don't have any misunderstandings, I tend to be just a little agressive when I talk about this (comes from having a little sister, lol!). I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you (I'm most definetly not), but sometimes I might come across that way, so please just take it with a grain of salt (wonder who coined that phrase? scratch )

Hmm, I haven't heard of that before....pretty interesting. Just a minor correction before I say anything.

Quote :
Jesus? The Buddha? Muhammad? Abraham? Zoroaster? All good guys in my book....

Judiesm (Sp?) and Catholicism are one and the same with the one key difference being that Catholics (and all Cristians to my knowledge) believe that Jesus was the messiah (and son of God). In other words, Abraham and Jesus didn't start two seperate religions. Abraham had certain truths revealed from God, then Moses etc., and each time God kept bringing the Jews to a higher standard. Then when they were ready, Jesus basically brought them to the next level. So yes, both good guys! Wink Very Happy .

Anyway, while it's definetly more believable than relativism, the faiths still contradict each other. (Protests EXIST because they disagreed with some doctrine of the church, Jews exist because they did not believe Jesus was the messiah, and ironically Islam is one of the most polerized faiths there is.)

Anywy, why would God chop his believers into thousands of differant sects? To quote Jesus - "A house divided against itself cannot stand". It seems pretty clear he wasn't ok with the idea of tearing God's house into pieces, (and that's even easier to see in the old testament) but even more he made it clear that he was God's son and one in him (either that, or he was one heck of a liar.)

So from here, all I can see (although I'm not perfect and so I'd really like to hear back from you on this to hear what you think about this!) is that either you believe Jesus(which doesn't fit with HU) or you don't.....or something I missed entirely.


I DO believe that each religion contains at least an element of the truth, some more than others, and no one has the full truth (God being too much for anyone to comprehend) but only the Catholic Church contains all the truths revealed by God.

Does that mean I think my "opinion" (belief) is better than those who believe in other faith? Well, why would I believe it otherwise? Not because I believe I'm so much better/smarter than everyone else, but (like with my cold fusion generator ex. in my post to Cory) there are certain pointers, which although I'm still learning, that I believe give Catholicism an edge over the others .

Basically, to say every faith is equal.....just doesn't work. There are too many contradictions, and some (like the Protestant faiths) exist precisely because someone's beliefs contradicted with the Church's. Either one is wrong, or both are.

One last question -

Quote :
I'm not going to pretend that my opinion is better than anyone of the faiths here, for I don't think I could ever truly be sure about anything.

Then why do you believe it?

In my last post, see the example of the cold fusion generator (near the end

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TrueDestroyer

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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:22 am

I refer anyone who is interested in religion, in the true roots of religion and truths about religion and religious figures, to Bill Maher's recent film, Religulous. I stand on the same side that Bill does. There's no way of knowing what lies ahead of us outside of faith. This faith is engrained in us through one means or another, but certainty in faith is human arrogance. To state that we know what is going to happen and that we know that we are going to a better place when we die is not the attitude that any faith should teach. To preach certainty is to mislead. To preach faith and hope that things will end well is what all faiths should adopt. But no one wants to hear the doctrine of maybe.
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waaar81

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PostSubject: Re: Religious Discussion   Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:45 pm

I agree with this part
Quote :
To state that we know what is going to happen and that we know that we are going to a better place when we die is not the attitude that any faith should teach

It is absolutly correct that you cannot know if you are going to heaven or hell when you die (if you believe it of course) I cannot say that it exists such a place since I didnt see it but I believe it does and have faith about it. But I have no idea what so ever it will look like. Anyway to comeback to your quote, in the muslim religion no one knows who will go to heaven or hell, but there is something like this: You will go to heaven as long as your a muslim but you will pay for your sins in this world. So the fact is that (I believe this also) most people will go to heaven except some if not all will pass by hell and get punished there first without knowing how long, maybe days , years. No one can know.

And we say that saying to someone "I will go to heaven while you will go to hell" is also a sin cuz at that moment you are putting yourself to the place of Allah (God) since your kinda stating that you are deciding who goes were so in a certain fact your are supreme. Of course religious believes have alot of different explanations and reasons for such things to be made, this one was just a small example.

Im gonna hev to cut short here cuz I gotta go back to work now

What I like to do before I die would be to know the reasons for all the good things or bads things that you can and cannot do for each religion.
I know some and they make alot of sense and alot of peopl edo it without knowing it. And when I think about it some stuff said by religion is really important and wasnt known until recently or the last century while it was for many centuries in the religion (none specific religion is targeted here)
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