Nintendo rant

frozentreasure wrote:

Really, this is quite concerning news.

Eh, it's concerning but not in a severe way. Look at the PSP for instance. While I think its an excellent handheld, it hasn't necessarily performed well in the past in terms of sales, at least in the western market. Yet it still lives with the exception of the PSPGo. Regardless, Sony has and is still standing strong as a company even after low handheld sales and especially after the infamous hack that forced a shut down of the PSN. My point is, Nintendo has nothing to worry about at this point especially since the system is in its early stages.

Worst case scenario, Nintendo drops out of making consoles and focuses on just developing games for other consoles. You know, kind of like Sega. I wouldn't be opposed to playing some Zelda or Metroid on my PS3/4 with updated visuals. I know, I know...this will piss off many a Nintendo fanboy but there's no argument that gameplay is important and Nintendo has mastered the art without question. But that doesn't mean we can't appreciate beautiful visuals either, does it? It's always good to expect more rather than to be a conformist.

Either way, whether this ever comes to pass or not, I just hope that Nintendo learns from its mistakes. Nintendo is, afterall a company that is run by humans. That said, they're not perfect and shouldn't be placed on a pedestal where people blindly worship them. They make mistakes and not everything they produce is perfect. However, as a consumer, I believe I have a right to expect "near" perfect quality in both service and product and to criticize them when they could've done more (Wii).

But what do I say to this new Ambassador Program and the 3DS price cut? I say, it's a damn good deal and probably the best the company can do in this situation. What more can be asked? They're already losing money but they're doing it for their loyal consumers and obviously, to help build reputation for the company. I tip my hat off to you Nintendo. Now get back to work on the HD Zelda you teased me with for the WiiU!

Blitzsword wrote:

My point is, Nintendo has nothing to worry about at this point especially since the system is in its early stages.

i agree its only its first year and the games every one wants are just now coming out (not counting OoT) the fans that bought the 3DS now are the true blue do anything for nintendo fans (ME!) im sure that even more fans are going to get it to get the free games then after the price drop they will see alot more pick it up because it going to be a really great deal then when games like star fox, kid icarus, super mario, and mario kart. also dont forget the free 4 swords game so 21 free games. i think i also read on ign that all the games will have multiplayer. anyone want to play super mario bros?

Blitzsword wrote:

Worst case scenario, Nintendo drops out of making consoles and focuses on just developing games for other consoles. You know, kind of like Sega. I wouldn't be opposed to playing some Zelda or Metroid on my PS3/4 with updated visuals. I know, I know...this will piss off many a Nintendo fanboy but there's no argument that gameplay is important and Nintendo has mastered the art without question. But that doesn't mean we can't appreciate beautiful visuals either, does it? It's always good to expect more rather than to be a conformist.

that is my worst nightmare. if that were to happen i may have to take a break from gaming for a while before i can accept that the games i love to play are now on there rival console. something really serious will have to happen for nintendo to drop out of the console race.

Blitzsword wrote:

But what do I say to this new Ambassador Program and the 3DS price cut? I say, it's a damn good deal and probably the best the company can do in this situation. What more can be asked? They're already losing money but they're doing it for their loyal consumers and obviously, to help build reputation for the company. I tip my hat off to you Nintendo. Now get back to work on the HD Zelda you teased me with for the WiiU!

ditto to all that i believe that nintendo do care for their fans and this is by far the best deal. you know that only people that get the 10 GBA games from this program are the only ones that get these games no one else. just about ever week i hear new and good things about the 3Ds and Wiiu like DLC (hello Super smash bros DLC characters) just my 2 bits

Yeah, for the most part, I think Nintendo is in decent shape. The worst case scenario is more of an echo as to what most people were saying based on Nintendo's financial woes and how much profit they've lost as of late. I personally think that the company has more than enough money from Wii and DS profit to keep them going. In the end, the survival of the company is based of on what choices the company makes for itself and for its consumers.

I still need to do more research on this Ambassador Program as I'm not fully up to speed on when and how this is going to happen.

Not sure if I'll get a 3DS right now. I think I need more incentive to do this other than 'free games!' It's great Nintendo is putting their best foot forward on this, but I'd appreciate some actual software for the system itself rather than ports and the like. At the very least, it's a start for Nintendo to get some confidence that they're going to need for the Wii U back, at least somewhat.

As for the 'will Nintendo drop out of the console business?' argument, I personally find the comparisons with Sega very, very overblown. A key issue that everyone seems to miss is that Sega had internal strife between the various parts of its own company, general abandonment of 3rd party support (due to the instability of developing games for the company's hardware) and crippling financial debt. Nintendo has none of this. Sure, it'd be nice if we got Pandora's Tower, etc. but I doubt it will hurt Nintendo in the long run. Is it entirely possible neither will sell well? Yes, totally. But Nintendo dropping out? Well, I wouldn't place any bets on it.

Never been a handheld fan, and I I can guarantee that 20 free games won't magically make me one. From what I can tell, Nintendo seems to have mishandled the release of the 3DS, hence the abrupt and seemingly desperate move at this point. I also notice once again that Nintendo has found an opportunity to remake games and capitalize on past successes. Naturally people will claim OoT 3D is amazing, and I will certainly agree with them-how could it not be amazing when it's a remake of the greatest game ever made? And perhaps the word "remake" is a bit too strong-more like an update. Same with Starfox. Saw the same tactics on Wii over and over again with ports and motion control.

I'm just sick of it, I'm sick of Nintendo. Not it's games, but of the company as a whole. It's like Miyamoto and friends are lost in space or something. I look at the Nintendo page on IGN, and all I see are feature articles about games that have already been out for a while. "Hyrule's Most Wanted," "Metroid 25 year anniversary," "Super Mario Bros 3 VS. Super Mario World." Nothing wrong with said articles, EXCEPT for the fact that these are the only things you'll find on the Wii page. Or maybe 3DS news, which itself belongs on the DS page. Either way, the Nintendo editors at IGN and other other gaming sites literally have NOTHING to write about because Nintendo has prematurely abandoned the Wii, much like the Gamecube. It is more or less dead now, with only Skyward Sword keeping it from being pawned off from most living rooms. Why does Nintendo do this? Why does it abandon its systems and fans? Why are there AAA titles coming out on a monthly-if not weekly-basis on other systems, with they're coming out on a yearly basis on Nintendo's consoles? It's just depressing, and I refuse to defend Nintendo anymore. There's no excuse. I almost think they really would be better off as a 3rd party developer. At least they'd have more incentive to create new franchises and actually make games on a frequent basis!

Phew...ok...rant over now.

Forsaken Lament 44 wrote:

I'm just sick of it, I'm sick of Nintendo. Not it's games, but of the company as a whole. It's like Miyamoto and friends are lost in space or something. I look at the Nintendo page on IGN, and all I see are feature articles about games that have already been out for a while. "Hyrule's Most Wanted," "Metroid 25 year anniversary," "Super Mario Bros 3 VS. Super Mario World." Nothing wrong with said articles, EXCEPT for the fact that these are the only things you'll find on the Wii page. Or maybe 3DS news, which itself belongs on the DS page. Either way, the Nintendo editors at IGN and other other gaming sites literally have NOTHING to write about because Nintendo has prematurely abandoned the Wii, much like the Gamecube. It is more or less dead now, with only Skyward Sword keeping it from being pawned off from most living rooms. Why does Nintendo do this? Why does it abandon its systems and fans? Why are there AAA titles coming out on a monthly-if not weekly-basis on other systems, with they're coming out on a yearly basis on Nintendo's consoles? It's just depressing, and I refuse to defend Nintendo anymore. There's no excuse. I almost think they really would be better off as a 3rd party developer. At least they'd have more incentive to create new franchises and actually make games on a frequent basis!

Which is why Nintendo believes its time to change how its been approaching the gaming world; this is essentially the driving philosophy behind the Wii U. You can argue, and I would agree to an extent, that this should have been introduced somewhat earlier with the 3DS, but I sort of see the 3DS as becoming something of a Wii analog if things don't change - we get a good game every now and then, but for the most part, it's either 'eh' or something...not good. The Wii U, if Nintendo manages to handle itself right, will be in the same vein as Microsoft and Sony. It won't directly compete with them - Nintendo has no desire anymore to do such things - but it will be more in line, from what I've gleaned of Iwata's statements. 3rd party software will be dominant, and even encouraged on the system, while Nintendo works on its own stuff.

As far as those titles go, I ask you to consider this: would it be nice if games from Nintendo game out more frequently? Sure, yeah it would. But then again, look at many of those same titles you're talking about. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3? I'll pass. It's just like every other FPS that seems to be all the rage these days as a genre. I'm not a Call of Duty fan and Activision-Blizzard is one of the worst offenders of sequelitis. I would never want Nintendo, much as they milk their franchises admittedly, to follow a similar path by continuously pumping out their IPs like that. Is this perhaps a gross oversimplification? Admittedly, but at the same time, Call of Duty is a very good example of what I view as the prototypical 'hardcore' game: it might look flashy and all, but it just doesn't have heart. This, to me, is what makes playing a Nintendo game on a Nintendo system great. For all of its faults and mistakes (of which there are many), when Nintendo puts something out that is not what its competitors' products are like.

I will be the first to admit I like some of the types of games I may have given the impression I've just slammed. But other than a few select things, I can quite honestly say I've made few game purchases this year: Portal 2, Mortal Kombat and, when it arrives near fall, Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. I have literally not been interested in anything that's come out nor could I afford every title that did, if I wanted to. To be honest, the other consoles really are like the Wii in this regard: a few titles I might want, but the majority I can skip or take a pass on. I am a retro gamer - so I'm attempting to support a library of older titles at the same time - I suppose this might mean it's not the same for me as it is others, but there you go.

A first party developer going to a third party one rarely works. If there is something that Sega and Nintendo have in common, I think this would be it: if Nintendo made the switch, I think the results would be much the same. Franchises would lose their quality and new IPs may come, but gems are few and far between. It's not an incentive to make new IPs at all: Sega hasn't really done it, with few exceptions. Not to mention, I would think that if that were to happen, again like with Sega, all the minds that do make Nintendo games worthwhile would leave. Nintendo has also stated that if they drop out of the consoles business, well, that's it. The games go with them.

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but I've grown sick and tired of Nintendo being held to a standard that Sony and Microsoft aren't. Why is it solely Nintendo who has to constantly be innovative? The Sony Move is basically a 1:1 version of the Wiimote (and, if it weren't for its non-casual games, I think it would almost be irrelevant with the Wii MotionPlus; admittedly, the latter needs to be freaking used more...). The Kinect is a step in the right direction (it was new and it seems groundbreaking), but Microsoft, at least I feel, seems to have largely alienated the fans who don't like motion controls; why would they buy that?

And let's talk about first party titles and new IPs: besides Resistance, Uncharted and Little Big Planet, and their sequels, what new things has Sony put out lately? I can't name any. Aside from Halo, Fable and Rareware's stuff (something also practically irrelevant since the company is a shadow of its former self), and again their sequels, I can't name anything either. For the most part, they contract third parties to do most of the leg work for them in presenting titles. Both approaches are flawed, I think, and this is why I'm tentatively happy for the Wii U's approach: a middle ground to Nintendo doing most of the work by doing first party titles while third parties aid them by supplying things for those droughts.

If the Wii U proves Nintendo can't change their tune, I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong. Until then, however, I just can't agree.

Forsaken Lament 44 wrote:

Why are there AAA titles coming out on a monthly-if not weekly-basis on other systems, with they're coming out on a yearly basis on Nintendo's consoles? It's just depressing, and I refuse to defend Nintendo anymore. There's no excuse. I almost think they really would be better off as a 3rd party developer. At least they'd have more incentive to create new franchises and actually make games on a frequent basis!

Because the others serve fast-food franchises. Fast, cheap, stale, and made out of plastic. I seem to recall you having quite a bit to say about how overused the Mario Party theme was......Can you honestly say that that these ready-to-go games are any better?

Nintendo takes more time, but they deliver a better product. Even now.

The truth is that all of them overuse old ideas. Whether it's Mario McParty 2,001, or Call of McDuty: Rehash: #1,451, they all take advantage of what sells. Frustrating as this is, it's hard to honestly blame them. Nintendo is the only one that regularly takes risks, even if they've failed to achieve the potential they could have lately.

Which brings me to the Wii U. Despite the horrible name, it has quite a bit of potential.......the key word being "potential". So did the Wii, and the 3DS still has some. The question is whether Nintendo will bring it out.

Anyway, if I had to choose something to demonize Nintendo for, it would be for naming their next-gen console the 'Wii-U'.

R.I.P. 'Revolution'.

This is a copy/paste of a post I made on a Gamespot thread in '09, in relation to Iwata's "The Wii has stalled" quotes in October. In various ways, I feel like it's still applicable, despite everything that's happened since then.

Quote :

Seems to me like they're trying hard to be like Apple -- Leading the market, constantly rereleasing their consoles with minor adjustments, etc -- but because only one guy (Miyamoto) is basically creating every first party title, they are increasing the price on every DS, rather than keeping it the same or reducing, and handling their marketing in a less than satisfactory manner as far as all of game journalism (Save maybe MovieBob) and all hardcore gamers are concerned, they're missing the mark, and it is hurting them.



Their biggest flaw is that they're still, after 3 years, trying to please everyone, a task that has been, and will continue to be impossible for all time. They might have done a good job of gaining the favour of the casual audience -- usually people who try to please everyone end up dissatisfying everyone instead -- but while the hardcore gamers originally didn't have too much of a problem waiting several years in between Nintendo's IP renewals, now in between each of Miyamoto's cultivations of greatness (don't read too much into that) TV shows, internet sites, people, everywhere they have had to put up with people being convinced that Nintendo is a good game developer/publisher and the Wii is awesome because it encourages getting fit, making music without having to press buttons, being able to express yourself, and a bunch of other untrue reasons, as opposed to the fact that it's Mario, Metroid, Zelda, DK, Pokemon, Pikmin, Kirby, Smash Bros., Fire Emblem, Starfox, and MOTHER that make them good.



Now it seems like Miyamoto is the only person who still understands that, while the rest of Nintendo believes that their legacy should start with the Wii and casual gamers. A Mii of Shigeru, the Wii Balance Board character, an old lady that has arthritis and can't press buttons rapidly; these are what all of Nintendo, save Miyamoto, want to be the new face of the company, not some fat plumber, or at least not one that is fat and isn't playing the Wii to lose the weight. Maybe Luigi, if they stop being ashamed of him.



So the question I'm sitting on, rather than how will Nintendo do in the remainder of this console generation given this news, is what will Nintendo become when Miyamoto retires? How long will it take for an intern at Kyoto to slowly work his way up through the ranks, eventually play the games from the 80s, 90s and early millennium, and ask his bosses "Why don't we do this anymore?", only to be met with blank stares from the suits that are scared that this employee is trying to break their system?



As a side note, if they're aiming for old people, do they not realise that all of the hardcore gamers are going to be old someday, and they will understand that those games aren't good and their sales will drop drastically because the younger audience doesn't even care for them, and their new demographic are the people who also knew better and mostly haven't gone senile?



As for my personal stance in this, it's not that I hate their attempt to shift the paradigm, but the way they're trying to go about it is slapping us in the face over and over every year until the over 20 that we spent basically being their lapdogs has been repaid, so while I'll still continue to get Miyamoto's creations until his reign is over, and that includes giving the new IPs that are exclusively for motion control and aimed at the casual audience a chance, he is the only person that I'll give the period of grace to. The rest of Nintendo can go work on George A Romero's next opus, as far as I'm concerned. Although I must say, I like that in between last and this year, Cammie got a lot less happy about Nintendo, so maybe she's caught on a little, but who knows.



The one respect in which Nintendo did follow in Apple's footsteps pretty well was that they're a monolithic, emotionless, soulless empire that is likely going to become one of the joint rulers of the world in about 50 years, with a coating of friendliness on the outside, a fantastic tour of the lobby and the gift shop is just darling. They do differ from Apple in that while I'm pretty sure everyone at Apple are completely aware of the company's subconsciously evil intentions, Nintendo is keeping a prisoner within its walls (Miyamoto) that, although being composed of liquid optimism, will eventually die a slave of the beast without even realising it.



If you want a realistic representation of Nintendo's building[s], watch episode 8 of There Will Be Brawl. It comes in about 10 minutes or so, I think.



Great: The last half hour that I wish I had spent eating something I just threw away to a small union forum post. Well, at least if I ever got around to setting up a website with an online public journal (known to most as a 'blog') I could copy/paste the general gist of this argument onto it; as long as I did it before the end of this financial year, when it'd likely still be relevant.

You bring up some good points Everlong, many of which I can agree with. I used to argue those points in years and months past. But at this juncture, the difference between you and I in this matter is that you and some others still possess faith in the company. Faith that Nintendo has learned from its mistakes and will right its wrongs and become a developer which is more or less equal to the others while possessing the same "heart" we all know and love. I hope you're right, and I hope I'm wrong, truly I do. But I must declare that I have sadly lost my faith in Nintendo. I feel they do not deserve it any longer, especially after the project Rainfall debacle.

I hear talk that they are changing things. That they have developed a new strategy. That 3rd party developers are extremely "interested" in the Wii U and it's potential innovations. But haven't we all heard this before? I could have sworn that I had heard Nintendo claim, at one time, that it was following a completely different path than the other systems and developing a new model of gameplay which would radically change the gaming landscape and include those demographics who had never once held a controller in their hands. 3rd party developers were excited, gamers were excited, albeit also slightly skeptical. While we waited, we sat with our gamecubes collecting dust, bored from a gaming drought which we hoped would never happen again. We thought we were truly getting a Revolution, when instead we got the Wii.

If any of that sounded familiar it's likely because history is currently repeating itself. Much like the Gamecube, the Wii has fallen into obscurity, mocked and ridiculed by most, while lying neglected in the homes of others. The Wii was on a roll--record profits, some amazing games...it was truly winning the "console wars" for a time. Increasingly, however, great games started to appear less and less frequently. The 3rd party support which Nintendo promised used the Wii as a cash-cow--a dumping ground for shovel ware and half-hearted attempts to win-over an increasingly deprived hard-core fanbase. Now, not even these types of games are really made anymore. The Wii is, for all intents and purposes (save for Skyward Sword), dead. Attempts were made to pump new life into the system in America....a large group of some of Nintendo's staunchest supporters put forth their best effort to obtain the release of some seemingly promising titles to ease the pain of this drought. Alas, their efforts were in vain. Nintendo revealed their attitude towards their fans in their response.

So now we find ourselves in the same regrettable position as we did in the Gamecube's waning years: a terrible drought of games (arguably worse than Gamecube's), a new system which has been met with a great deal of skepticism (especially after a botched unveiling), and sly promises of 3rd party support and a "new" philosophy. The remnants of the once mighty Nintendo fanbase--ravaged by desertion and disappointment--are dying of thirst for games, yet their throats are not yet too parched to silence their unwavering support for the corporation which consistently neglects them. They incorrectly assert that nothing but cookie-cutter shooters and over the top violence exists on the other systems, and that Nintendo is the only system with truly "fun" games with real "heart." Oddly enough I would wager that a bulk of these gamers have yet to even play a game on the other systems, and have instead opted to play Nintendo's aging lineup time and time again.

Now of course, not all people who support Nintendo lack any sort of pragmatism. "Soft" Nintendo supporters love Nintendo and patiently await new games for months on end while enjoying great games on other systems. I believe the bulk of the members here belong to this category. I did as well, at one time. And truth be told, I do love Nintendo...or at least what Nintendo was. I remained open in my approach to the company, always hoping for the best, because I had experienced the best. Zelda and Mario are still my favorite franchises of all time. OoT is my favorite game of all time. I still love discussing Nintendo and playing their games. But at this juncture, I have no choice to reject Nintendo and it's "philosophy." I refuse to support it while it arrogantly neglects us while teasing us with "new" promises. Nintendo already claims to have "changed" once, but clearly it just coated itself with a fresh coat of paint. What was that famous line Barrack Obama said in the 2008 Presidential Campaign? "If you put lipstick on a Pig, it's still a Pig." Despite the innovations, the 3rd party support, and its declaration that it wasn't "competing" with the other systems, it has still repeated its mistakes.

Everyone says graphics aren't as necessary as the "fun factor" of games, but why couldn't the Wii have had the same capabilities as the 360 and PS3? Nintendo chides online interaction and gameplay, but why couldn't they have at least made its implementation streamlined and accessible for 3rd parties who wanted to utilize online play? Nintendo instead stubbornly declared that it was their way or the highway, knowing navi well that its fanbase would follow it into the abyss if it commanded them too. This is why 3rd party developers had the hardest time releasing AAA titles on the wii like they did on the 360 and PS3. While the versions of the latter two systems were more or less identical, the Wii iteration required a completely different effort. Graphics had to be dumbed down (often times the Wii version of a game was a port of a PSP version), online modes cut back or cut altogether, waggle controls implemented. From this a vicious cycle was born, as Nintendo gamers refused to by crappy versions of 3rd party titles, and developers stopped making hardcore games for a non-responsive market. In a relatively short period of time, AAA hardcore titles just didn't appear on the Wii at all. Many strictly Wii gamers became ignorant to the many great titles which existed on the other systems, and were instead content with whatever Nintendo spoon-fed them. Now, years after most developers had abandoned the Wii, even Nintendo has deserted it-leaving in its place those dammed promises of theirs.

So after all this ranting and raving on my part...what do I think the solution is? How would Nintendo win back my support? The answer is really quite simple-LISTEN to your fanbase, or at least do your best to show that you have their best interests at heart. We know Nintendo is a business, we know it's main goal is to make money...there's no question about that. But the most profitable companies give the best possible attention to their constituents. They give them the best possible service, and even when they can't give their fans everything they want, they at least try their hardest to make it so. Nintendo instead scoffs when a band of gamers asks for a paltry 3 games. It refuses to listen to fans who have been clamoring for YEARS for a revival to so many beloved franchises which Nintendo has achieved its fame with. It doesn't cater to growing trends in the gaming world-no, instead its fans must cater to IT. Nintendo doesn't like online gameplay, Nintendo says "too bad for them." Nintendo doesn't like hardcore games, Nintendo says "neither should the fans." Nintendo doesn't want the offerings of so many 3rd party have proposed, Nintendo says "the fans are better off without them." Fans want a new, ORIGINAL Starfox game, "oh well." Fans want new franchises, "so what." Fans have for years asked for a full-fledged Pokemon game on a home console, "screw them." Well screw Nintendo. Yes it made billions and billions of dollars off the Wii, but it could have been so much more had it not so arrogantly clung to archaic, stubborn policies. We could have had fantastic AAA 3rd party offerings while we waited for Nintendo's amazing games...heck, I could definitely live with that. But no...once again, Nintendo's policy is "My way or the highway." And sadly, so many fanboys are content doing things their way, ignorant of the abuse they are suffering, and the greatness that could have been.

We can sit here and pray that Nintendo gets it right next time, but how many times must we be disappointed? I for one am done with it. Unless I see a marked change when the Wii U arrives, it will be the first time in my life I will not buy a Nintendo console the night it is released-if at all. Instead I will take my business to systems which pay attention to their fans, to gaming trends, and which feature amazing 3rd party support. Some may be content rewarding Nintendo for its reckless and arrogant behavior-like dogs eating from a hand that would just as soon slap them as pet them. But not me Nintendo. Not me. I'm through.

Hmm...very interesting points from the both of you, Everlong and Forsaken. I've got to admit, even though I did purchase a 3DS, I do feel its lacking in games at the moment. I too am a fan of their franchises, mainly The Legend of Zelda series. As I've said before, I'll acknowledge Nintendo on their innovation and their quality hardware and software. But we have to be honest and say they're full of mistakes. Like any other company, Nintendo is prone to mistakes but I also think they SHOULD be held to the expectations of the other companies. Why? Because it'll help them grow and adapt far better towards the gaming community. The gaming market as a whole has evolved over the years, whether you choose to accept it or not. Online is a major factor in today's gaming as is graphics and gameplay. Backwards compatibilty, built-in DVD or BluRay, and of course a powerful engine under that hood is a necessity in a gaming console. People say things like that stuff is not important, and if that's the case, what's wrong with having that ability? Gameplay is something Nintendo excels in so why not go a step further. Listen to the fans. Give them what they want. Don't just cut corners and do things you "think" people will love, do what they are asking for while implementing your own uniqness.

SmashedBrother wrote:

Forsaken Lament 44 wrote:

Why are there AAA titles coming out on a monthly-if not weekly-basis on other systems, with they're coming out on a yearly basis on Nintendo's consoles? It's just depressing, and I refuse to defend Nintendo anymore. There's no excuse. I almost think they really would be better off as a 3rd party developer. At least they'd have more incentive to create new franchises and actually make games on a frequent basis!

Because the others serve fast-food franchises. Fast, cheap, stale, and made out of plastic. I seem to recall you having quite a bit to say about how overused the Mario Party theme was......Can you honestly say that that these ready-to-go games are any better?

Nintendo takes more time, but they deliver a better product. Even now.

The truth is that all of them overuse old ideas. Whether it's Mario McParty 2,001, or Call of McDuty: Rehash: #1,451, they all take advantage of what sells. Frustrating as this is, it's hard to honestly blame them. Nintendo is the only one that regularly takes risks, even if they've failed to achieve the potential they could have lately.

Which brings me to the Wii U. Despite the horrible name, it has quite a bit of potential.......the key word being "potential". So did the Wii, and the 3DS still has some. The question is whether Nintendo will bring it out.

Anyway, if I had to choose something to demonize Nintendo for, it would be for naming their next-gen console the 'Wii-U'.


R.I.P. 'Revolution'.

You haven't even dipped a toe into the world of the other Consoles, and you make it very, very obvious. For one, Call of Duty is on all three systems, although on the Wii it is common knowledge that it is considerably crappier.

Secondly, the only Nintendo game that has more work put into it is probably the Legend of Zelda. Everything else turns out to be short, shallow, 2 dimensional (Literally) adventures. It's painfully obvious you don't even have a slight clue about what you're talking about. Since when is Halo "Fast, cheap, and stale"? Or Uncharted? or Left 4 Dead? Or Killzone? or Marvel vs Capcom? Or Soul Calibur? Or Portal? Or Team Fortress 2? Or Fable? Or Final Fantasy? Or Bioshock? *Continues rambling for several more hours*. Every sing one of these games have had considerably more work put into them and are much higher quality than just about everything Nintendo has put out. I don't see Nintendo surprising us with brand new IPs like Infamous or Little Big Planet, or major 3rd party developers even bothering to look in Nintendo's direction for their major titles such as Batman: Arkham Asylum and Metal Gear Solid. You're seriously trying to say that these games have little work put into them? You probably don't even know what these games are because they're not a fat plumber that jumps on things.

Other consoles offer choice, and no, they're not all overused old ideas. You fit the exact generic Nintendo fanboy mold that Cory was talking about in his rant. What choices do Nintendo fans have? Waggle? Or waggle? Mario Space or Mario Space 2?

Forsaken Lament 44 wrote:

Snip

I was rather loath to wander back into this topic as I think that it's going to get very toxic. You might be surprised, however, that in a large sense, I don't particularly disagree with many of your points. Everything is a hypothetical at this point: Nintendo's promises just as much as its predictions of being doomed to failure. But, like you said, where I part with you in most regards is in the area of optimism.

I'd like to think that I'm not some blind Nintendo fanboy. I, too, remember the years of the GameCube. For a long time, during the PS2-Dreamcast-Xbox-GameCube era, that was my only console until my PS2. I admit: my Wii has collected dust for a while, as my funds generally go into retro stuff or games on other consoles (even with my limited buys per year). It's unfortunate: I remember the promises of how revolutionary the Wii would be and it, while making a lot of money, did not live up to the hype. If Nintendo cannot change itself to suit this new era of gaming, then it will be doomed to failure. I may only hope Satoru Iwata has finally realized many of Nintendo's errs this time around.

I do not disagree with the idea that there are many great franchises on other consoles; indeed, I enjoy many of them. Fallout. Portal. BioShock. Little Big Planet. All of those are fun games - but as I've said, it simply isn't the same. Maybe it's my rose tinted glasses speaking, but rarely do I feel the same elation when playing a different company's game than I do a Nintendo one.

But the reason I break with you on the key issue of the Wii U (and, if the 3DS proves itself more to me in the future, it as well; though I need to go out and purchase a DS first - I've missed out on many great titles there for far too long:( Money talks. No one has disagreed, like you stated, that Nintendo is first and foremost a business. They like to make money. Every company, effectively, is not much more (no matter what people may lurk within) something with a black and shriveled heart that cares nothing but for the profits they make. But this is exactly why I will try to support the Wii U, paradoxically.

I do not think that large companies, especially like Nintendo, barring some major scandal, do not respond to negative reinforcement. Indeed, if they can find a loophole, they will work around it. This is my fundamental problem of 'not buying the product of X' in protests. Instead, I will give them positive reinforcement.

If Nintendo is using this as a way to learn - as I have said my hope that they are - then they'll be trying to feel what it is that this new post-Wii era generation of gamers would like to play. If the Wii U's message (more like that of the PS3's or 360's) is not well received, I don't believe that it will change their minds. In fact, I believe it will achieve the exact opposite: They will shy away from any such experimentation again in the future, preferring to stick to the safe route that they've done relatively on the Wii.

My contribution will be small. I have no delusions of grandeur it may mean anything at all, at the end of the day. But, at the very least, I can say that, even if I'm wrong and it fails, that I tried.

Sigh.........teach me to try and write something clever in five minutes. I suppose that did sound like a generic fanboy. Still, I think I wasn't quite "so completely blind" as you said earlier.

Let me be clear - I'm not a fanatic demanding that Nintendo be treated as some kind of sacred cow. Actually, having recently broken out my old SNES and comparing its offering to that of the Wii, I'd be the first to say that's bull. I mostly agree with what Cory has to say, but I disagree with his final conclusion.

My honest assessment is similar to what Luis said above - I love Nintendo for what it does do well, but we shouldn't be blind to its faults, many of which are arbitrarily self imposed. However, this can be taken to the other extreme, ditching rose-colored glasses in favor of mud-coated spectacles. What particularly gets me about this is the belief that Nintendo is somehow betraying us. Nintendo owes us nothing more than what we paid for, really.

The sad truth, despite the casuals being dismissed by so many, they've become a substantial source of income for Nintendo. Whether things stay this way has yet to be seen, but for now in a very real sense, Nintendo is listening....unfortunately, we're mostly drowned out. Really, all the companies do this, which is why Sony and Microsoft offer their own variations of "Waggle".

This doesn't thrill me much either, but lashing out at Nintendo hardly changes anything. That's all I'm trying to say

TreIsGood wrote:

Other consoles offer choice, and no, they're not all overused old ideas. you fit the exact generic fanboy mold that Cory was talking about in his rant. What choices do Nintendo fans have? Waggle? Or waggle? Mario Space or Mario Space 2?

I think we both know how easy it is to sound like a fanboy now, eh?

I have considered the wii to be a pretty much dead console, in the fact that that the only game Nintendo even plans on releasing thats of any excitement to me is The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. My issue is Nintendo has a bad habit of making promises they can't keep. I used to be a die hard Nintendo fan, but now I'm starting to wonder.... is Nintendo really going to deliver a console that won't be left in the dust with in the first 3 months of release? Nintendo for quite sometime has been behind in a lot of ways. One of the main issues with Nintendo is they are always first. People need to realize that first doesnt always mean best. If you wait a few months down the road xbox or sony will be out with a decent improvement on what Nintendo does with their own twist. In this way (if the trend continues) Nintendo might continue downhill in my opinion.

BrightScales wrote:

I have considered the wii to be a pretty much dead console, in the fact that that the only game Nintendo even plans on releasing thats of any excitement to me is The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. My issue is Nintendo has a bad habit of making promises they can't keep. I used to be a die hard Nintendo fan, but now I'm starting to wonder.... is Nintendo really going to deliver a console that won't be left in the dust with in the first 3 months of release? Nintendo for quite sometime has been behind in a lot of ways. One of the main issues with Nintendo is they are always first. People need to realize that first doesnt always mean best. If you wait a few months down the road xbox or sony will be out with a decent improvement on what Nintendo does with their own twist. In this way (if the trend continues) Nintendo might continue downhill in my opinion.

I always imagined you were partial towards Nintendo back in the day

I was during the N64 era. I still love Nintendo as do so many on this site, but it's also good when to recognize their mistakes. I applaud you for not being bias towards the company. I also hope that Nintendo does make some greater changes when the Wii U comes around.

You bring up good points Everlong. I do find it ironic, however, that you say that Nintendo has "played it safe" with this past generation. I'm not disagreeing with you; on the contrary, I couldn't agree more. The ironic aspect of that is that Nintendo promised a "revolution" of sorts: a new and innovative way of gaming unlike the other choices on the market. In a sense, they did achieve this, but they stopped short of truly fleshing out this promise. Instead, they cowered from progress, and potential greatness. Indeed, I enjoy many of the same franchises as you on the other systems, but as I mentioned, had Nintendo remained on the same footing, there's no reason those games couldn't have been on the Wii as well. Personally, I would love to wield plasmid powers in Bioshock with the Wiimote...it'd be the greatest thing. And Nintendo proved that controls on the Wii could indeed be superior, (i.e. Resident Evil 4 Wii edition) if done properly. Unfortunately, Nintendo DID NOT capitalize on the innovation for which they received so much attention during the opening months of the Wii. Nintendo squandered a great opportunity, and we missed out.

I also agree with your point Brightscales. While Nintendo has acted preemptively with the Wii U, this gives its competitors a tactical advantage as they will no what to expect, and how to best the Wii U. Nintendo may enjoy another period of "1st place" in the console war, but I fear it'll quickly be eclipsed by the PS4 or 720. Sounds like history may repeat itself yet again, hm?

I'm not going to read all of this, because you all write so much (I'm looking at you Cory!) so if my points have been stepped on, then too bad.

Along with the general concensus here, I am somewhat annoyed with Nintendo and their approach to new content. Yes, every new Mario, Zelda game always impresses but an entirely new franchise would be so much better. And don't anyone say "no-one releases new stuff because too much money goes into it blah blah blah". A perfect comparison to this would be Pixar. Movies cost just as much if not more to produce than videogames and it would easy for Pixar to spawn off another couple of Toy Storys and The Incredibles and other A-class series. But no, they risk new content all the time, like now, they're making a new movie called Brave (I think that's its name) and risking millions of dollars on it. Nintendo needs to get out of the kiddie pool which is way too warm (we all know why) and jump into the Olympic deep end with brand new floats.

Also, I'd like to point out that I recently got a 360 purely due to the masses of stellar games that are produced for it and are being planned and haven't used my Wii for months, if not a year by now.

Wii U is a ridiculous name, sounds more like an ambulance siren.

Couldn't have said the above better, actually. I'd like to hear a fanboy's explanation as to why there are no new franchises? They'd probably argue Wii Sports and Animal crossing...

Oh, and you should read those posts, Yasser, I think you'd find a lot to agree with, considering your forementioned opinions.

Yeah, I'll get round to reading them eventually, but right now, I'm just trying to catch up on everything in the forum.

Well, seeing the recent news about Skyward Sword, there may be some hope for Nintendo yet...not saying I'm not still annoyed or angry with them, because I certainly am...but the possibility of playing the best Zelda of all time definitely couldn't hurt...

Though the new Zelda will certainly give Nintendo a boost in popularity, it's one game compared to the masses on the other platforms and will be done with by the end of the year. I really hope the Wii U changes the stigma of Nintendo consoles and more third-party developers invest into it.

firegremlin wrote:

Though the new Zelda will certainly give Nintendo a boost in popularity, it's one game compared to the masses on the other platforms and will be done with by the end of the year. I really hope the Wii U changes the stigma of Nintendo consoles and more third-party developers invest into it.

I think the greatest tragedy, in a sense, is that we know that when Nintendo has a product from one of its franchises, it can pull huge numbers. I don't know the exact number of preorders for Skyward Sword, but I'm pretty sure the game has stayed in a 'top 10' spot these past few months. Considering how much the Wii is bad mouthed, deservedly in some instances or not, this seems quite amazing. Nintendo needs to change itself, that much is undeniable.

I think as we've all agreed, when Nintendo does something right with one of its franchises, everyone pays attention to it. Nintendo has simply failed to realize that this is not enough; the interest of the average gamer can only be held so long with Mario, Zelda, etc. I posted this on another site, but I still feel it's very relevant:

"What I believe Nintendo needs to win is the following:

1) An aggressive marketing campaign - If ports are in the cards, as we already know, Nintendo has to advertise them differently than simply having slightly more content. Why are they better games because they're on Wii U? I hate to appeal to the lowest common denominator, but Nintendo also needs to perhaps adopt a tactic from old school Sega: emphasize how your games look. If the Wii U is indeed more powerful than the PS3 by around 50%, let gamers know it. Rub it in Sony's face. Just inform the people of how your product is different

2) Strong first party titles: While I did indeed create the post criticizing the notion Nintendo solely needs 1st party titles, they're crucial to making Nintendo recognizable. Bring us a few old faces (Pikmin, Wii ____, etc.) Let us know that this is going to be a trustworthy platform for the traditional Nintendo gamer. And if it's not too much trouble - new IPs, Nintendo. Please?

3) Robust third party support - Basically what I stated above. Without this, Nintendo can kiss the console's chances of success as being less than stellar.

4) Reasonably priced - This is a clincher. I hope Nintendo was taking notes earlier this year with the 3DS. While it's definitely going to be expensive, Nintendo needs to try to keep the costs low without sacrificing quality. I'm no salesman, but there has to be a way Nintendo can do this while still ensuring quality of their product. While only one Wii U controller hurts things, it does make sense from an economic perspective. If you're competing with the $200-250 Xbox 360 and PS3, you need to make people sure what they're buying is worth it. Ties into 1.

5) A good online system - This will matter to a lot of people, perhaps more than any other. It's great that we've been hearing friend codes are gone. This is a good first step. Nintendo needs to prove they're capable of grappling with Xbox Live and PlayStation Network. Do they need to directly try to muscle in on their market share? Not necessarily, but they definitely need to tell gamers how different an experience it's going to be from the old stuff, which was generally mocked and ridiculed. A healthy shop channel that advertises DLC, ware games and Virtual Console is also vital; they need to try to grab exclusive content from companies."